port and polish the s.c

[vaspen]

so title says it thats what im going to do here soon

i know ill need new gasket seals for the housing, im going to change the oil aswell on the s.c

but i was wondering how far is too far to open it up
the stock boost on mine is 5-7.5 (7.5 on a cold night lol)
i want to get as much as i can without modding the pully so i can come back with results on just the porting

now i did look before i posted but i couldnt find anything although i did see somthing a while back about it ...
can anyone tell me how many millimeters i can open it up ? i get the concept of it and it shouldnt be hard
but i do plan on better intercooler pipes and eventualy a ls6 swap :3 thats waay down the road

[John Jones Jr.]

Is there any point in porting the S/c without the larger crank pulley? I don't know but I'd have reservations and reckon you'll be fitting a pulley very soon after porting. Don't forget a bearing kit too.

If you check out posts by KrumB, he's done the works on his C230K and now is in the process of modifying the ECU.

[vaspen]

Well it's the same concept of porting the exauhst it makes a better flow and increases efficiency and also allows more air to flow

[Vetruck]

Well it's the same concept of porting the exauhst it makes a better flow and increases efficiency and also allows more air to flow

It is not the same.

Why? becuae power is all about head flow. When you port and polish haeds, you are making velocity so air can be "sucked" through those ports to get more into the cylinder. A supercharger forces air into those ports and pushes the air, rather than the air being pulled. You are simply building positive air pressure, whereas a standard "naturally asperated" port is negative air pressure.

Just get a bigger pulley so you can createe more velocity of the screws to increase the positive pressure- because more volume leadng to them is not going to increase the pressure after them, the only way that is incresed is through spinning faster, or larger screws (which would mean a larger supercharger.

[Abbaso]

Is there any point in porting the S/c without the larger crank pulley? I don't know but I'd have reservations and reckon you'll be fitting a pulley very soon after porting. Don't forget a bearing kit too.

If you check out posts by KrumB, he's done the works on his C230K and now is in the process of modifying the ECU.

I think he would be able to get the air cooler by porting it only. But would be wise to get the crank pulley machined while its all out. Would love to know what kina pressure the pulley alone will make. Without the crank pulley. Try and get dyno figure's before and after if it's possible.

[John Jones Jr.]

I think he would be able to get the air cooler by porting it only.

Yeah, you could be correct but if he opens up the S/c like KrumB,etc did (and I presume that's intention) would there not be loss in boost pressure thus negating the any advantage from porting without fitting a larger crank pulley of machining down the S/c pulley?

[Abbaso]

Yep you do have a point there John. Come on bud do the port and polish and post us the results.

[vaspen]

As I have read in the big book of super chargers and turbos you can drop boost by making it more efficient and make better gains from it also if you allow more air to come into the charger by opening the walls up that's just it your allowing a better flow into it reducing friction
Plus Im just porting it to see for boost lvl changes atm I still need to find a shop to machine the puly finnaly I want a whiiple s.c lol I wana get rid of the roots and get a twin screw but that's a 3grand investment lol
Also I have no idea where a dyno is near me ..

[RemoLexi]

If any interest, I have a pair of clean OEM s/c manifolds for sale. $50 takes em

[vaspen]

Pics or it didn't happen lol :p

[John Jones Jr.]

Come on bud do the port and polish and post us the results.

It's a +1 from me.

[KrumB]

Hi,

In my opinion there's no point in porting the S/C without modifying the pulleys. In fact if you don't have a good tuner for the ECU it's worthless to do anything more than a bigger engine pulley.
But if you've made your mind you can use the following phone app to measure the results. It's been tested and it's accurate enough!

http://www.perfexpert-app.com/en/

P.S. Keep us posted. :)

[vaspen]

Thanks krumb also I'm just a firm believer of the saying
The more air and fuel I can pack in there the bigger that bang gon-b :p
lol the tricky part is getting it in there btw krumb any input on whipple (sry) supercharger brand ?

[KrumB]

The problem with our cars is that the ECU is not allowing more than certain amount of power (It has a load calculation algorithm/map). It's doing that by opening the bypass valve or cutting the S/C. Mine has a bigger crank pulley and a smaller S/C pulley. The S/C is ported and I use bigger intercooler. The ECU is remapped. I also have additional fuel injectors and a piggy-back ECU. Still the boost is not going past 13 psi mark on a good day. I've measured the power and it's between 215-220 hp @ the crank.
So a VERY good Mercedes ECU tuner is essential in order to achieve the desired power levels.

P.S. I don't have any experience with Whipple S/Cs. Sadly :( :) :)

[John Jones Jr.]

Krum, you're only up max 30bhp with all those modifications? It begs the question what gains there's to be had with just a larger crank pulley fitted, an extra 15bhp doesn't even seem realistic. What do you reckon?

[KrumB]

One could acheive the same level of performance as me with just a crank pulley 4.0 Bar FPR, new plugs and relocation of the MAF I think.....

[John Jones Jr.]

One could acheive the same level of performance as me with just a crank pulley 4.0 Bar FPR, new plugs and relocation of the MAF I think.....


Well, that's what I have and sure the car is quicker than the original set up but by how much I'm totally unsure of. I'm sort of sorry now I didn't get it RR'ed first and again after the mod's, sadly one of the things that held me back from doing so is lack of confidence in those RR shops - some of them will tell you any figure you want to hear which is useless and a total waste of money.

Still, very interesting Krum and I can't wait to hear how you get on when you've cracked the M-B ECU. Fingers crossed for you boy!

[KrumB]

I also have absolutely no trust in the tuners in my area so couldn't agree more.
The phone app works good enough so that you know if something you've done gives more power or not.

As for the remap i'll take time but we'll figure it out. :)

[Malig8r]

has anyone taken the SC off in favor of a turbo that you guys know of?

[KrumB]

Not using the original ECU.
There a few turbo swaps using standalone ECUs and the results are more than good. :)

[Abbaso]

Not using the original ECU.
There a few turbo swaps using standalone ECUs and the results are more than good. :)

I would try and go the proper ecu remap way. My previous car I had put aftermarket engine mangement that cost around 600$. But I was not impressed especially with cold starts it made about 10 kw more over stock. The stand alone ecu just like any chip is only as good as the tuner tuning it.
KrumB would you say our biggest obstacle is the bypass valve? So if we could find a way to manipulate the way it operates we would be good.

[dokotela]

Gents, a dyno is nothing but a tuning tool. All dynos are not equal. If krumbs car makes 220hp at 13psi, I'm pretty sure that a lot of the cars on here would battle to make 200hp on the same dyno. That's why we use before and after results so the comparison can be fairly accurate.
@vaspen, I'm fairly certain that one of the reasons you asked the question is to see if it's a tangible mod or not. IMO u will probably lose boost and make your car slower.

[dokotela]

Dbl post

[KrumB]

KrumB would you say our biggest obstacle is the bypass valve? So if we could find a way to manipulate the way it operates we would be good.

Someone on the forums said he replaced the bypass valve with BOV and the car threw a bunch of fault codes so its no a good. The best way is to have the ECU properly remapped.
It's the damn load calculation map. :)

P.S. I mesured the car before and after the S/C porting and there was absolutely no gain.

[Abbaso]

P.S. I mesured the car before and after the S/C porting and there was absolutely no gain.

So if I just do the kompressor pulley I won't have to port the s/c? Cos I think that's my biggest obstacle I've spoken to a guy and if I remove the pulley and give it to him its 120$ to machine. And maybe probably drop iat's with an intercooler spray kit.

[KrumB]

In order to drop the IAT with or without porting the S/C you need to change the intercooler or use a high quality spray kit.
My advise is don't touch the S/C if you don't know what you're doeing or U R absolutely sure the machine shop guy knows exactly what he's doeing (in most cases they don't) :)

[Abbaso]

In order to drop the IAT with or without porting the S/C you need to change the intercooler or use a high quality spray kit.
My advise is don't touch the S/C if you don't know what you're doeing or U R absolutely sure the machine shop guy knows exactly what he's doeing (in most cases they don't) :)
The guy has machined pulleys for the mini Cooper supercharger. He's one of the older tuners in Durban SA. Has he's own lathe and does the job himself. I think he should be capable of doing it.

[vaspen]

Lol I'm gone for 2 days .. but I do have a friend who is a dam smart guy with computers haha but I still want to get Er off there and crack it open but as for a bov that's odd did he loop the connections? From the harness But honestly I think a 4g63t swap would be Easyer granite u make it mate with the tranny in some magical way

And krumb did you check to see if you had temp drop fro doing it ?

[KrumB]

@Abbaso - I meant you should make the S/C pulley smaller just don't do any porting if you don't know exactly what you're doing. :)

vaspen, I did not measure before and after the port job. Later on I measured the IAT and @ 25 Deg C ambient temperature it was rising to 85-89 deg C at full load. I then decided and changed the intercooler and the IAT dropped to 40-45 deg C max.

Swapping a MItsu engine will be let's say "quite interesting" :)
On the other hand you can always take an old 6-cyl engine like the M103 or M104, turbo it and pair it with a strong tranny and you'll have quite a fast car. Not to mention the LS1 engine.... :) :) :) :)

[vaspen]

Tru on the ls1 but the 4g63t can obtain well around 1000 bhp hell the evo has a power option fir a stock 400 something lol

[KrumB]

The M111 engine can hold well over 400 hp just as it is. :)

[Abbaso]

[QUOTE=KrumB;184418]@Abbaso - I meant you should make the S/C pulley smaller just don't do any porting if you don't know exactly what you're doing. :)
Yeah I would agree on that part when it comes to superchargers most people don't know what their doing including myself. :) My only worry is reassembly of the clutch after. Thanks KrumB

[KrumB]

Abbaso, don't worry. It's fairly easy to disassemble/assemble the S/C pulley. You need to remove one #8 bolt then take out the preassure plate. When you remove it be carefull because there are several small washers underneath it. Then there's a one more washer that you need circlip pliers to remove. Then the pulley is out. :)

[Abbaso]

Thanks KrumB. Sounds easy enough one more question. Is it possible to do it without removing the charger.?

[KrumB]

yes it's possible. You only need to use small enough pliers. You'll understand me when you see it.
One more thing I just tought of. You also need to dissasemble the outlet cover of the S/C /5 bolts/ in order to take out the pulley. When you remove the airbox you'll see 'em. It's not a big deal. You only need a few tools. :)